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+ Show Spoiler [Patch Notes] + courtesy of lol-patch.com
v1.0.0.118 - 2011-05-10 Fixed a bug where by casting spells in rapid succession you could charge multiple spells with a single Mantra Chakra now shows a cooldown v1.0.0.115 - 2011-04-11 Fixed a bug where the visual for Heavenly Wave occasionally wouldn't align with the direction cast Mantra Soul Shield now shows an area of effect indicator when your cursor hovers over an ally v1.0.0.114 - 2011-03-28 Fixed a bug where the Mantra version of Heavenly Wave was not granting assists for healing allies Spirit Bond's leash range has been increased by a small amount Mantra now scales with level on a 30/25/20 second cooldown at levels 1/7/13 respectively instead of on 25 second cooldown at all levels v1.0.0.112 - 2011-03-01 Heavenly Wave base heal increased to 35/55/75/95/115/135 from 30/45/60/75/90/105 Spirit Bond cooldown reduced to 15/14/13/12/11/10 from 20/18/16/14/12/10. Soul Shield Increased the shield strength by 10 at all ranks. Mantra cooldown reduced to 25 seconds from 30 seconds. v1.0.0.111 - 2011-02-16 Spirit Bond now properly assigns assist markers to allies that receive the haste bonus Fixed a bug where Spirit Bond would break friendly spell shields and not apply the haste bonus Fixed a display bug where Spirit Bond's beam would appear at Karma's feet for enemy players
+ Show Spoiler [Abilities & Statistics] + courtesy of leagueoflegends.wikia.comAbilitiesPassive Inner Flame: Karma gains up to 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 increased ability power corresponding to her percentage of missing health. Q Heavenly Wave: Karma sends forth a wave of hidden blades from her fans, dealing magic damage to units in a cone in front of her. Mantra Bonus: In addition to dealing damage to enemies, Heavenly Wave will also heal Karma and her allies in the cone. An additional 5% (+1% per 50 ability power) of health the targets are missing is added to the heal. Cooldown: 6 seconds Range: 700 (estimate) Cone Width: 90º Cost: 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 mana Magic Damage: 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 / 270 (+0.6 per ability power) Base Heal: 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 / 135 W Spirit Bond: Karma creates a beam between an ally or enemy for up to 5 seconds. Allied anchors move faster and enemy anchors are slowed. The beam deals magic damage to enemies and applies the same movement speed adjustment anchors receive to any champion it passes through for 3 seconds. The beam breaks if the bonded target is stealthed. Mantra Bonus: Karma strengthens the bond to double the effect of the movement speed modifier. Range: 800 Leash range: 1000 Cost: 65 / 75 / 85 / 95 / 105 / 115 mana Cooldown: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds Movement Speed Modifier: 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20 % Magic Damage: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 / 305 (+0.7 per ability power) E Soul Shield: Karma summons a protective shield on an ally or herself that absorbs damage for 5 seconds. Mantra Bonus: In addition to casting the shield, a surge of energy bursts out from the shield dealing magic damage to enemy units around her target. Cooldown: 10 seconds Range: 650 (estimate) Radius of Damage AoE: 600 (estimate) Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana Shield Strength & Magic Damage: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 / 280 (+0.8 per ability power) R Mantra: Karma empowers her next ability to do an additional effect. Karma gains a charge over time and stores up to 2 charges. The refresh rate is reduced by cooldown reduction and does not progress when having max charges. No cost Cooldown: 0.25 seconds Mantra is available from level 1 and does not require skill points. The time needed to load a charge is reduced at level 7 and 13. Charge Reload Time: 30 / 25 / 20 seconds Why play Karma? She is a FotM waiting to happen. Seriously, go stalk SmashGizmo's stream: http://www.own3d.tv/live/82457 and I think Jiji plays her too now and then. She wins a lot of lanes, farms amazingly, kites amazingly, is really hard to towerdive, can bait better than Nidalee, and happens to synergize well with "tanky assholes that run around and accidentally do damage".
When play Karma? Any time you can get solo top. She's that good. Especially if your team has Singed, Mundo, Mordekaiser... Any tanky DPS is cool, but the ones that don't really stick to one target as much are best (because then you don't have to risk yourself to keep them tethered).
Pregame setup: Summoner Spells Flash is imbalanced. Ghost is ok too. At least one, maybe both. Ghost, Ignite, Clairvoyance and Teleport: Ignite will get you a lot of kills that you wouldn't otherwise get. Ghost if you are sure that you are the most important person on your team (and that more speed would get you out of bad situations). Clairvoyance if no one else has it (but still solo top - you are not a support you are a GOD). Teleport because you can solo push pretty well and it's imba.
Masteries 9/0/21, no questions. You don't need SoS because of imba mantras, and utility is god on casters.
Runes Red magic penetration Yellow scaling mana regen Blue scaling ability power Quint flat ability power You can substitute armor yellows and magicresist blues, but your shield is plenty of survivability as is and killing them faster is better than not dying as quickly.
Skill order and use None of Karma's abilities are particularly effective until you put lots of points into them. Tether (W) is usually left till last, since it's the least reliable damage and the hardest to farm with. If the enemy champion is melee or otherwise short ranged, just walk up near them and mantra-shield yourself and toss some fans at them. If the enemy champion outranges you, mantra-shield a creep when they try to last hit it. You have effective 1200 range with mantra-shield. CRAZY. Fans are pretty straightforward. They aren't particularly longranged, but they're wide, and your shield should absorb enough damage that you can just walk up to the enemy and fan them. Tether is your most complicated skill and the hardest to use. It's also got the highest base damage of all your skills and is the only one that affects your opponent's movement. It can be a good choice over the fans if you know your enemy will be getting between the creeps and you. It makes ganking your lane much easier. In teamfights tether someone that needs speed while spamming mantrashield and fans, saving a mantra for a clutch heal. Position carefully - you become squishy as soon as you shield someone else.
Items: Most of the time rush Deathcap -> Zhonyas/Abyssal. If you feel squishy or threatened, or need to initiate for your team, get Abyssal Scepter and/or Zhonya's Hourglass, THEN get Deathcap. After Deathcap if you can't hog blue buff, you'll want Morello's Tome. But you should always hog blue buff. Blue elixir will cap your CDR.
From there, get any of the following as appropriate: Banshee's Veil - spellshield, mana, magic resist. Replace with Force of Nature or Quicksilver Sash if you feel appropriate. Guardian Angel - always kill never die. Get this as your 5th or 6th item. Archangel's Staff - More mana, charges fast with all your spam, lots of AP. Leaves you squishy though. Shouldn't get this if you can secure blue. Rylai's - more health, more AP, and a decent passive. Acceptable, though not amazing. Warmogs - if your teammates rage at you for farming so much, buy this so you have an excuse. Mejai's - you get plenty of assists and have high survivability. Good person to buy it on.
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theres 2 different karmas, people that know how to use her tether and people that dont, both are viable.
If you know how to use her tether, you should prioritize that and shield, tether has the highest damage output since it has the highest AP ratio, if you use it right, you can slow the target so allies catch up, or run away from enemies, still use mantra charges on shield.
If you dont know how to use her tether (most people dont), you should prioritize shield if laning against melee, and her Q if against ranged, with one level of tether at level 2. to escape with lanemate.
Morello's tomb is core, with cd runes and 9/0/21 you'll get a charge every 15 seconds, then sorc boots, afterwards get ap/survivability as needed.
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(Repost) I've been playing karma bot lane and taking half the farm and going tears (works MUCH better than philo stone, philo stone isn't that good at all, you can spam abilities in lane real hard with tears) --> CDR boots-->deathcap and then get 1 kindle gem or bluepot for 40% CDR and thats your core. You are pretty useless without farm except for W but you can teamfight a lot like vlad with mass aoe except you heal other people. Basically if you get tears CDR boots and deathcap you don't need too much else and you start dominating pretty hard. You've got solid aoe healing and in teamfights your AoE dmg shield and W is amazing.
-I use W mostly as a slow, and like cast it on someone at the back and make sure I drag it through the guys in the front (it has huge range) to deal damage and slow them, of course allies get extra speed. -I use mantras all on soul shield except out of fights where I use it on Q to heal people. -Q just standard AoE spell.
You are deceptively tanky even with such a squishy item set up because of your passive+shield+heal. BTW: Mantra Q+use normal E if you want healing Mantra E+use normal Q if you want damage.
I find normally mantra E+Q is much better since it does a lot more damage than what you miss out on healing, since it has a bigger aoe and its mostly the guy getting focused by their team.
I haven't used much mantra W yet but obviously when chasing its good. You can use it on them and have the ally run through it for bonus speed.
I find the healing on her Q isn't really that amazing in general, but still better than tarics, and alistars.
Her lane is basically AoE them while shielding your ally. Something like renektron/karma or garen/karma will actually crush really hard because of the amount of Aoe damage. I go Q-->E E>Q>W in general, but in lane you take one point in W around level 3-4 and level more Q if you need more healing. I am still noob at preemptively using sheilds because I don't play janna and love using them to blow up the other guys.
She's not as bad as people think she's really hard to play, relies on level 13+40% CDR before she can start spamming mantra, and definitely needs some AP if you want to deal a lot of damage. Of course if you want to play support you still have a strong lane and some AoE damage, it just doesn't feel beastly.
I don't like her as an aegis carrier compared to a tank. She needs tears/CDR/AP so badly. Soul shroud is good on her.
I'm running: mpen red mp5 flat seals (for lane, not sure if needed, might go back to armour) cdr/lvl blues (you get enough CDR to be maxed with CDR boots and bluepot/kindlegem at around 13, which is prefect because thats the final level up of your R) hp quints, maybe take 3 g/5 if you are confident and supporting for sure.
Starting dorans ring, seems to make sense since you don't want to be too squishy.
She feels a lot like zilean in the champions you protect. For example if you go renektron karma you have a beastly lane and in teamfights he's doing sick damage and you're shielding him and doing even more damage. You can also slow the people around him while speeding him up. She scales well with AP like zilean. You could really view her as just a hard to play zilean because she has the double AoE+protect 1 teammate+speed/slow.
Janna and soraka are obviously the ones you want to protect a ranged carry.
Totally agree that tether makes the karma player, definitely the hardest to master especially when to mantra it. Make sure you get lots of damage running it through ppl and slowing them.
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wtf, yall is crazy, lemme give you my pro karma setup
9/0/21
mpen reds mana regen/level yellows AP/level blues Flat AP Quints
Flash + meh, w/e. ignite is pretty sick because people suck and die to it, but teleport or ghost is probably better.
GET A SOLO EVERY GAME NO QUESTIONS. IF YOU CAN'T GET A SOLO YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING A DIFFERENT CHARACTER.
d-ring to start... wut u think they're gonna get through your shield? lol boots 0-2 more d-rings as necessary deathcap
that's your core mercs or CDR based or Sorc Shoes on whether you need Mercs or not.
OTHER STUFF Void Staff if they have stacked mres Rylai's is slick Hourglass is slick Banshee's is ok DFG or Morello's are OK if you can't hog blue, but you should hog blue buff and whore blue elixirs so CDR actually shouldn't be an issue I think I bought a will of the ancients once but it seemed stupid
SKILLS EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
alternately get 1 point in W when it feels right I guess.
sit in your lane and attack your opponent. if they attack back, RE -> Q them. If they're pussies and stay out of your E range, gratz, you get free farm and then you can dick over their last hits AND harass them by mantra shielding creeps they try to last hit, LOL. So yea, around level 6 or 7, you can just 2 shot every creep wave and roam or you can just be abusive and zone your opponent, depending on how the lane's going. Preferaby you just push and peace vs. burst assholes like akali and leblanc and zone guys who want to farm.
the whole point of the build is that between AP spec and your passive and drings and deathcap, you're sitting around like 450 AP at 20 minutes and then you buy a blue potion and hit like 500 and it's all like, "WTF, FUCKING OP"
Idealy your team will have a singed. If not singed, mundo will do in a pinch and I guess Garen works too. You can also just protect a guy like xin, irelia, jarmander, w/e melee DPS guy here, but really you just want some asshole who likes to run around and accidentally do damage. So then you put your tether on them and mantra up shields on them and then Q shit that comes near you and you win all the games because Karma is OP as hell with assholes who run around and accidentally do damage. So yea, it's sorta like Zil in who she likes to protect, but she favors the ones that are beefier and run around with no real purpose as opposed to guys who buy actual offensive items and stick to carries. So there you go, full Karma guide, ggnore, thank me later.
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Oh wow Karma with deathcap is even more abusive than Sion holy crap this is so much fun. New #1 solo queue character
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147 Posts
Here is what I start with
Mana crystal + HP pot Tear ASAP Boots 1 Start work on Morello's Tomb Get CDR booties while finishing it Finish the Tomb Then I go for Deathcap OR Rylia's. Having a slow on everything is great.
That is more core: Tear, CDR boots, Morello's. Then go from there.
Works great and you are most annoying to fight against.
TEAR IS ESSENTIAL. You NEED THE MANA. With a tear (which is usually always at max charge anyway in the game), you can farm, go to 2-3 teamfights, farm, and still have mana.
Without mana, you can not support, and tear is an easy solution.
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i always hesitate to use a tear first build, 9 times out of 10 if ur having mana problems its better to grab catalyst instead, but i dont kno much about karma, only that tear first builds tend to be terrible on casters
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On April 01 2011 13:21 Mogwai wrote: wtf, yall is crazy, lemme give you my pro karma setup
9/0/21
mpen reds mana regen/level yellows AP/level blues Flat AP Quints
Flash + meh, w/e. ignite is pretty sick because people suck and die to it, but teleport or ghost is probably better.
GET A SOLO EVERY GAME NO QUESTIONS. IF YOU CAN'T GET A SOLO YOU SHOULD BE PLAYING A DIFFERENT CHARACTER.
d-ring to start... wut u think they're gonna get through your shield? lol boots 0-2 more d-rings as necessary deathcap
that's your core mercs or CDR based or Sorc Shoes on whether you need Mercs or not.
OTHER STUFF Void Staff if they have stacked mres Rylai's is slick Hourglass is slick Banshee's is ok DFG or Morello's are OK if you can't hog blue, but you should hog blue buff and whore blue elixirs so CDR actually shouldn't be an issue I think I bought a will of the ancients once but it seemed stupid
SKILLS EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
alternately get 1 point in W when it feels right I guess.
sit in your lane and attack your opponent. if they attack back, RE -> Q them. If they're pussies and stay out of your E range, gratz, you get free farm and then you can dick over their last hits AND harass them by mantra shielding creeps they try to last hit, LOL. So yea, around level 6 or 7, you can just 2 shot every creep wave and roam or you can just be abusive and zone your opponent, depending on how the lane's going. Preferaby you just push and peace vs. burst assholes like akali and leblanc and zone guys who want to farm.
the whole point of the build is that between AP spec and your passive and drings and deathcap, you're sitting around like 450 AP at 20 minutes and then you buy a blue potion and hit like 500 and it's all like, "WTF, FUCKING OP"
Idealy your team will have a singed. If not singed, mundo will do in a pinch and I guess Garen works too. You can also just protect a guy like xin, irelia, jarmander, w/e melee DPS guy here, but really you just want some asshole who likes to run around and accidentally do damage. So then you put your tether on them and mantra up shields on them and then Q shit that comes near you and you win all the games because Karma is OP as hell with assholes who run around and accidentally do damage. So yea, it's sorta like Zil in who she likes to protect, but she favors the ones that are beefier and run around with no real purpose as opposed to guys who buy actual offensive items and stick to carries. So there you go, full Karma guide, ggnore, thank me later.
lol this is what I do with karma. o.O
Deathcap is definitely her core imo. She's kind of similar to lux in that respect. I really like rylais on her too though, because you can R->E an ally in the middle of a teamfight and everyone on the enemy team is slowed (can also R->Q and heal while slowing in some cases). It also makes her a lot tankier overall. She works best with a roamer like alistar since she can get all the farm imo, similar to lux and morgana.
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Playing the AP stack hog blue buff is the way to go for solo lane, but if you have truoble letting people even let you play karma without CV let alone in a solo lane its best to go tears+CDR glyphs+soul shroud to help support your team while getting a deathcap inbetween tears and soul shroud.
You NEED farm though, if you can lane with a tank who doesn't need all the cs thats ideal, she doesen't work well with ranged carry because she is best when she can AoE shield someone fighting and then Q and w.
I always take 1 point in W and later on it does tons of damage, but the first point helps for chasing.
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if they don't let you solo don't play karma. it's really that simple. she's not that kind of support.
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She doesn't perform with 0 cs, but with about 50% cs if any lanes support that, she's fine.
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147 Posts
yeah, she DOES need CS.
I dont think a catalyst is REALLY neccessary since you can self-heal.
If i was solo lane, I would get flash/teleport so I can get my tear instead of catalyst.
I still think tear is the utmost importance on her. Less recalling, more casting, more up-time.
With max CDR you will be casting spells 24/7 and never run out of mana.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 03 2011 07:37 Morphx2 wrote: yeah, she DOES need CS.
I dont think a catalyst is REALLY neccessary since you can self-heal.
If i was solo lane, I would get flash/teleport so I can get my tear instead of catalyst.
I still think tear is the utmost importance on her. Less recalling, more casting, more up-time.
With max CDR you will be casting spells 24/7 and never run out of mana.
Through levels 6-10, Catalyst is going to be a superior mana source compared to Tear of the Goddess, not to mention it builds to more generally useful items. I can't think of a single caster on whom I'd get Tear but not Cata.
In the case of a caster that for some reason doesn't need the survivability of Cata->RoA/BVeil (e.g. Lux), Philo Stone is more mana regen for less cost while also providing gold/5 (alternatively DRing stacking is more mana regen for less cost while also giving you modest amounts of AP). It doesn't build to AA staff, but AA staff isn't cost-effective as an AP source unless you have 3k mana (which you won't achieve without a Cata-based mana source or Glacial/FHeart).
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wtf, why the hell are you buying tear on this character? i don't even understand... If I wanted to flush 980 gold down the toilet I'd buy a pickax.
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On April 03 2011 09:37 Mogwai wrote: wtf, why the hell are you buying tear on this character? i don't even understand... If I wanted to flush 980 gold down the toilet I'd buy a pickax.
I support this shift towards AD supports
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Shouldn't rushing out a Rod of Ages be a pretty good idea on her? I understand the concept of D-Ring stacking to 2 or 3, and I think getting out a quick Catalyst which you eventually turn into a Rod accomplishes more or less the same thing.
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Too expensive/delays deathcap too much I suppose?
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Yeah. Karma basically needs to get her survivability from her AP. Stacking mana and hp just doesn't work at all. You need to just stack AP as much as you can, so you beastmode AoE, and if you don't screw up your positioning then you can't die because of shield+heal being too good except vs burst.
Tears of the godess is good duo lane, when the amount of mana spent is higher and the levels are lower. Playing solo though, definitely NOT needed at all. Just clear creeps and roam, or deny. Karma is very good in lane.
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Karma is one of the best supports for tanky dps. He shield gives way more EHP on them, her heal scales with their health, and her tether is great for people that are charging in. I played a few games and Karma/Zilean/Renekton can basically 3v5 after getting farmed.
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I absolutely loved ancient tome on her, especially if someone like ryze / vlad is in your team. thing is, I got absolutely destoyed vs ashe (high range) but i were able to war of attrition a nida, so weird.
I went something like (on the run build, but hey, it worked) mana crystal boots catalyst ancient tome / mejai cdr boots deathcap, rylai, void banshees. (sell mejai for one of these in the end)
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So I just lost a game to a Karma bug. Her R-shield was doing like 600 more damage than it should. She was laning with Sion, and suddenly out of nowhere and without any AP, Karma was two-shotting everyone. Death logs claimed "basic attack" from Karma doing 600 damage, when she didn't autoattack at all. It might be that R-shield was adding Sion's shield strength to her own damage? Not sure. Reported both the Karma and the Sion, but the bug's still worth looking into... not sure exactly how it works.
And before you ask, no, it wasn't both shield damage spells doing damage at the same time. Suddenly you took about as much damage as a Tibbers + Disintegrate + Incinerate spell combo, and Sion's shield was still counting down to explode.
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not a reportable offense IMO. abusing a bug may suck for you, but it's not their fault the bug exists and there's nothing saying that they can't use the bug to their advantage until riot fixes it. I'll look into it tonight.
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It happens to a lot of people don't worry. You can always adopt a yordle.
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Mejai's is pretty good on duo lane Karma since you can play kinda like lux support in that you stay behind and just do damage from behind and you're pretty safe.
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Okay I've been playing some Karma games recently and she does lots of damage Only games I can seem to do well in is when I go RoA rush. I either dring start or sapphire + 2 hp pots. It depends on how well I'm doing; I'll usually get my RoA by 17 minutes with no other items bought (sometimes I have boots 1). I've been duo laning or 1v2 in all of my last games which is why my farm hasn't been best. I usually pick up a couple kills/assists too. Then I go for CDR boots and rabadons. I get my RoA cause sometimes I like to get in close combat cause I can shield myself and do good damage after doing good damage wtih my fan - then I can gtfo wtih w. Health lets me stay there longer and the mana pool is gud enough for me. RoA is just a great item imoimo I like it a lot hahaha I don't really know what to do next, I just do whatever I feel like l0l. Maybe get more cdr? IDK and e>q>w. Her shield is seriously sooo good. I mantra this 80% of the time, q 19% of the time, and w 1% of the time. You can use it to harass and it shields for a ton of damage, and does a ton of damage. You can shield a minion to temp deny a last hit and do damage (especially fun vs melee! they run up to last hit, you're like LOLNO and r + e the minion and they take damage and you can harass tehm until they back off) W I use either to help my carry position or slow someone down in a chase or help someone get away or keep an enemy out of position. (a ton of options lol, but figure out what to do and when) Q's heal is pretty good, it's aoe and the cone is small but if your teammates are in a good position where you can get it off on 2 other people use it, usually can heal everyone for like 450+ total with short cd. I usually forget about this though =(. I get too much of a boner over making sure my E is mantra'd. summoners i do exhaust + flash, i'm sure you can figure out why yourself ;o
yay, first post here in 2 months. Karma is super fun to play but is undervalued, poor girl =(
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I've figured out part of why Karma's mechanics feel week. Mantra'd Spirit Bond sucks. The diminishing returns on movement speed screw it up both as a movespeed buff and as a snare.
To quote something I wrote on the official forums:
Once you go over 415 movement speed all further movement bonuses are reduced by 20%. The thing is, even the slowest champions in the game will go over 415 with regular Spirit Bond as long as they have any boots. Here's some math showing the difference.
300 Base Movespeed + 50 [Boots 1] = 350 350 * 1.2 [Regular Spirit Bond] = 420 420 - (5*.2) [Movement Penalty over 415] = 419. 350 * 1.4 [Mantra'd Spirit Bond] = 490 490 - (75*.2) = 475
So for a ridiculously slow champion Mantra'd Spirit Bond is only 80% more effective. Now look at a fast champion.
330 Base Movespeed + 70 [Boots 2] = 400 400 * 1.2 = 480 480 - (65 * .2) = 467 400 * 1.4 = 560 560 - (70 * .5) = 525 525 - (110 * .2) = 503
So on a fast champion, Mantra'd Spirit Bond is only 34% more effective than regular Spirit Bond. This is a huge part of why Mantra'd Spirit Bond is so lackluster and unused.
The second reason is that even the slow is affected by this calculation, though not as severely.
Take a fast champion like Dr. Mundo. If he has Force of Nature and his Ultimate going he has a 43% movement speed boost going. Normally this means his movement speed would be capped at 502, but slows are calculated before all those diminishing returns. Rather than being slowed to 301 from the 40% slow on Mantra'd Spirit Bond, Mundo is only slowed to 334. That's still a strong slow, but it is still a weakening factor.
What would help make Mantra'd Spirit Bond a much better option would be to triple the Haste effect. Then it would be much more compelling an option.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 11 2011 06:20 Seuss wrote:I've figured out part of why Karma's mechanics feel week. Mantra'd Spirit Bond sucks. The diminishing returns on movement speed screw it up both as a movespeed buff and as a snare. To quote something I wrote on the official forums: Show nested quote +Once you go over 415 movement speed all further movement bonuses are reduced by 20%. The thing is, even the slowest champions in the game will go over 415 with regular Spirit Bond as long as they have any boots. Here's some math showing the difference.
300 Base Movespeed + 50 [Boots 1] = 350 350 * 1.2 [Regular Spirit Bond] = 420 420 - (5*.2) [Movement Penalty over 415] = 419. 350 * 1.4 [Mantra'd Spirit Bond] = 490 490 - (75*.2) = 475
So for a ridiculously slow champion Mantra'd Spirit Bond is only 80% more effective. Now look at a fast champion.
330 Base Movespeed + 70 [Boots 2] = 400 400 * 1.2 = 480 480 - (65 * .2) = 467 400 * 1.4 = 560 560 - (70 * .5) = 525 525 - (110 * .2) = 503
So on a fast champion, Mantra'd Spirit Bond is only 34% more effective than regular Spirit Bond. This is a huge part of why Mantra'd Spirit Bond is so lackluster and unused.
The second reason is that even the slow is affected by this calculation, though not as severely.
Take a fast champion like Dr. Mundo. If he has Force of Nature and his Ultimate going he has a 43% movement speed boost going. Normally this means his movement speed would be capped at 502, but slows are calculated before all those diminishing returns. Rather than being slowed to 301 from the 40% slow on Mantra'd Spirit Bond, Mundo is only slowed to 334. That's still a strong slow, but it is still a weakening factor.
What would help make Mantra'd Spirit Bond a much better option would be to triple the Haste effect. Then it would be much more compelling an option. Alternatively, leave the haste effect DR-ed as it is now, and up the base slow/speed. I think mantra-ed Spirit Bond would be fine if the base spell weren't so weak.
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I really wish Spirit Bond hurt the person you cast it on. But then it might be a little bit imba. Instant guaranteed 80/125/170... oh wait that's Vlad's Q + 10 damage/.1 AP scaling, with 3-7 seconds longer cooldown that doesn't heal her.
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On June 16 2011 13:35 Tooplark wrote: I really wish Spirit Bond hurt the person you cast it on. But then it might be a little bit imba. Instant guaranteed 80/125/170... oh wait that's Vlad's Q + 10 damage/.1 AP scaling, with 3-7 seconds longer cooldown that doesn't heal her. bad arguement, vlad is getting nerfed
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are there any good/interesting/high skilled karma vods out there?
solomid vod section dont seem to have any
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Just played my first game as Karma, she feels *really* fucking strong. I find it hard to believe that she hasn't been given more attention.
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On July 14 2011 13:46 Odds wrote: Just played my first game as Karma, she feels *really* fucking strong. I find it hard to believe that she hasn't been given more attention. She is fairly strong, her ult really limits her though. Using her as a support in solo q is difficult, her heal is really good but getting multiple people as they all run around in different directions is challenging. With her shield and heal and speed boost she sounds stellar, I'm curious as to why she isn't played more. Tried playing her as an ap carry as well, she is strong but her main damage requires coordination from your team, solo q nightmare.
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I think she's pretty much in the same class as Morgana and to a much lesser degree Orianna - she's a support/AP carry sort of hybrid champ.
If she gets fed, the game seems to be sort of over because if you can't burst her down, she just huehue shield+heals her whole team while raping everything.
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Give me more mantra stacks :< In a teamfight I just feel useless after I am waiting for the next one to come up
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As a support she is awkward as a support for the aforementioned reasons and she only enhance your teamfights, she can't turn it around like janna or sona ult or initiate it like taric.
As an AP carry she still lack CC and her burst isn't that great.
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no one commented on the fact I just raped the fuck out of my stream on karma!?!?!?!? lol, she soo good.
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On July 14 2011 14:49 Mogwai wrote: no one commented on the fact I just raped the fuck out of my stream on karma!?!?!?!? lol, she soo good. were you solo top i assume? i saw you post about her being only good solo top, and in my lvl27 experience, that has held very true. i end up being very mediocre whenever one of my allies decides to switch from jungle to lane after i lock in, or from jungle to lane after he dies to golem/etc.
e- just carried so hard as Karma, i think i play too aggressively early on because she seems to a shitton of dmg once E is lvl2-3 and Q is 2 as well, but not so much when you're like lvl3 vs lvl2s
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I was solo mid. Dumped on some poor annie, then saw our Udyr had no tanking items so I just went Abyssal + Hourglass and huehuehuehue-Karma-tanked the other team's shit. It was pretty retarded.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 15 2011 00:03 Mogwai wrote: I was solo mid. Dumped on some poor annie, then saw our Udyr had no tanking items so I just went Abyssal + Hourglass and huehuehuehue-Karma-tanked the other team's shit. It was pretty retarded.
Please say you recorded this game or have a replay of it.
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I checked the record option in xsplit before I started streaming but I don't see it on my channel, so dunno, maybe it recorded locally? I will check later tonight. But if you wanna make yourself sad about the Karma rapage you missed you can just check my recently played games for the one where my karma was like 13/2/7 or something with a quadra.
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United States37500 Posts
gib replays nao, u fgt
That was ranked too. Please tell me it was solo q, rofl.
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sadly it was arranged, so opposing team not so strong. not that it would matter because Karma es so strong, es always shield (so strong, es nambah juan, except for mordekaiser).
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Karma pretty strong in premades. I have a buddy ~1800 who I play with a bit, and he's done some pretty damned good stuff with Karma in the past few weeks....
Less good for pubstomp, since it requires a lot of coordination with mantra stacks/leash/etc....
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the most important difference in arranged 5s is that you can usually get your teammates to let you solo. /not kidding
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Probably also true.... I've never played Karma, might pick her up soon for some lolz. ^_^
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she's a ton of fun, I love her.
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When would I want to take Karma mid over cass? I can't really think of any lanes that Karma might win that Cass would not, besides maybe kassadin.
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ummm, that choice would have nothing to do with the laning phase. they play so fucking differently end game.
but anyway, Karma is more about bullying people around via attrition, whereas Cass is about pure damage. soooo, I dunno, any lane where Cass might not be able to easily retaliate in burst trades, Karma should be able to do better via shielding herself/outranging the opponent via mantra shielding creeps. Karma also can just insta-push lanes really early which lets her ruin a lot of people who can't last hit well under a tower.
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Fair enough. What sort of team comps would you prefer one or the other in for lategame, then?
Aside: Cass can also instapush really hard. I think they're equivalent in that regard.
Edit: I'm considering buying cdr blues and quints for Karma and rushing NMST's evil Tome for quick max cdr. Worth it? Maybe different item?
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no cass's shit is DoT related and smaller AoE. Karman can literally just 2 shot creepwaves indefinitely around level 5 or 6. Like, Karman is a Morde/Sion level lane pusher when she wants to be. Cass is most certainly not on her level there.
Also, I know this is gonna shatter your world but... CDR is an overrated stat on Karman. Resistances and AP are better on her. I like CDR boots, but morello's is just... so underwhelming IMO. Also I love getting blue as Karman, so that might have something to do with it, but I mean, I would never pick Karman if I couldn't hog my team's blues.
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United States47024 Posts
CDR is overrated on blue-using AP casters in general simply because buying it spends gold on a stat that Golem buff keeps capped for you more than 50% of the time.
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blue buff + blue elixir + utility tree = capped CDR. Nice stat Riot.
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On July 15 2011 05:33 Mogwai wrote: blue buff + blue elixir + utility tree = capped CDR. Nice stat Riot. Max level blue = 25%, blue elixir = 10%, utility = 6%.....
Oh shit, never even noticed the 1% that went wasted. Not that 1% is really relevant, maybe on a nocturne ultimate or something.
You would think they would just make it 40 even, but i guess not. Nice pickup smash. ^_^
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On July 15 2011 00:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 00:03 Mogwai wrote: I was solo mid. Dumped on some poor annie, then saw our Udyr had no tanking items so I just went Abyssal + Hourglass and huehuehuehue-Karma-tanked the other team's shit. It was pretty retarded. Please say you recorded this game or have a replay of it. it's recorded and supposedly uploaded to my own3d account. It's not showing up yet but maybe you just gotta wait awhile.
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Been stalking these forums for a few months since I started playing... Thanks for all the good advice around here!
Smash on your stream that initiation with Karma was unreal. At first i thought you had made a mistake but then you tore them apart. From the games I've played it feels like her shields are applied post-mitigation which makes opening Abyssal Scepter feel really abusive. Is this true or do her shields not take mitigation into account? (if i find someone to test with I'll try tonight).
One little thing I've noticed in the earlier laning phase that is pretty nice is your harrass also has the ability to completely clear a creep wave. So if can coordinate it you can hit the enemy and the wave with mantra'd e + q, and then they will also take a full round of your caster minions attack.
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On July 22 2011 01:38 OhNeverMind wrote: Smash on your stream that initiation with Karma was unreal. At first i thought you had made a mistake but then you tore them apart. From the games I've played it feels like her shields are applied post-mitigation which makes opening Abyssal Scepter feel really abusive. Is this true or do her shields not take mitigation into account? (if i find someone to test with I'll try tonight). As far as I know every shield in the game works just like extra HP (i.e. the damage the shield takes is affected by your armor and MR).
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On July 22 2011 01:38 OhNeverMind wrote: Been stalking these forums for a few months since I started playing... Thanks for all the good advice around here!
Smash on your stream that initiation with Karma was unreal. At first i thought you had made a mistake but then you tore them apart. From the games I've played it feels like her shields are applied post-mitigation which makes opening Abyssal Scepter feel really abusive. Is this true or do her shields not take mitigation into account? (if i find someone to test with I'll try tonight).
One little thing I've noticed in the earlier laning phase that is pretty nice is your harrass also has the ability to completely clear a creep wave. So if can coordinate it you can hit the enemy and the wave with mantra'd e + q, and then they will also take a full round of your caster minions attack. Mitigation applies to shields. That's why if you're shielding yourself as Karman, you need to build some mitigation, but if you're just letting Singed 1v5 the opposing team and then shielding him you can afford to just bumrush Deathcap. It's also why I fucking hate all the Sion builds that don't grab Negatron + Chainvest after their Deathcap.
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How do you use Karma in teamfights? I just got her, and while I really like her ability to lane and destroy creeps, I don't feel like I'm contributing as much in teamfights as I do with Lux or Janna.
I can hardly Q in the fights because its just dangerous to get that close, but if I don't use Q or Mantra Q to heal I'm only leashing/shielding and they're not really on the shortest cooldowns so I feel like I'm not doing much helping >:
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put your mantraed shield and a tether on the singed, GAWD I went over this on page 1.
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Acceptable Singed substitutes are Udyr, Dr. Mundo, Yorick, and even Master Yi. They are the margarine to Singed's delicious fresh-churned butter.
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In teamfights W tank / tankydeeps. Then R>E or R>Q depending on the situation.
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Necroing this in honour of Sun Goddess Karma finally going on sale. Smash/Slayer/anyone, had much of a chance to run Karma w/the new masteries & whatnot?
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eh, I'll just make a new thread for her. 21/0/9, AP masteries quite strong.
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